Sexy Girls Night Out Drinks, but at home? Bark and Barware Shows You How with Cocktail Smoker
Bark and Barware enters the cocktail market with their premium cocktail smoker, including 6 flavors.
Bark and Barware’s Harel Levy
Today, Bark and Barware’s Harel Levy joins us for a conversation about cocktails, creating your long-lasting girls night out, picking the right flavors, the perfect pairings and more!
The below conversation has been edited for length and clarity. Find the full conversation at our YouTube channel.
Joe Winger: Can you tell us a little bit about your story? And what inspired you to create this cocktail smoker kit?
Harel Levy: I’ve been an entrepreneur for the last seven years. While there are no mistakes, I actually found [the cocktail smoker] by mistake. I was planning to buy something for my Dad. I usually won’t give something if it’s not 100%. So I’d rather not give a gift that I don’t really like. Because I really care about what the recipient is going to feel.
“I really love the idea of cocktail smoking kits. […] It’s another tool to have a great night.
I don’t want to give something cheap, because if you really love someone, you really want to make sure that everything is spot on, right?
Even on yourself, you will be more forgiven in terms of what you buy than someone else.
I really love the idea of cocktail smoking kits. It’s not that it’s only cool and it’s a great addition to having those nights with friends, with family. It’s another tool to have a great night.
I went to Amazon and I saw there is no one who actually sells it in a premium, wooden box. And with many flavors. I talked with [my company’s] CEO about it, what’s missing here.
Bark & Barware’s Smoker Kit
We came up with a wooden box. It came from my passion to give something that looks good.
For almost a year, we went back and forth with factories. The smoke. The flavor. Details with the box.
When we released it, we were very happy. We knew my criteria. If I can give it to my Dad, not being afraid he’s not going to like it. Then I know that other people are also going to enjoy it because I have high standards for giving a gift to someone that I love. That’s how we came up with the product and the product.
The second thing we are planning is to bring a mixologist, make it a more holistic experience.
Extend the journey with our customers, give them cocktails, give them recipes, give them ideas, The journey doesn’t end when the transaction happens for us. We want to continue to build trust and serve our customers.
Joe Winger: You have a very comprehensive website. Can you walk us through your Cocktail Smoker Kit? When we buy it what do we get?
Harel Levy: There are six different chip flavors, the culinary torch, the smoke lid. Ice tongs, whiskey stones. Unfortunately, we don’t include butane [gas for the torch] because shipping is very heavily regulated,
“In every smoker kit you get six different chip flavors, the culinary torch, the smoke lid. Ice tongs, whiskey stones.”
We have six flavors: cherry, oak, pear, maple, hickory and apple. Our plan is to listen to our customers and come up with new flavors based on what they ask for. It’s not a one-time product release. We’re going to offer refills, extensions, more.
Each taste is very delicate. The world of wine, flavor, alcohol is so wide and you can get very specific sometimes. When you do get specific, you get the best results, right?
Joe Winger: Has there been one or two major lessons you’ve learned?
Harel Levy: Initially we had more flavors. After we gave out samples and heard about which flavors were the favorite, we removed some.
Joe Winger: You mentioned flavor pairing. What’s your favorite cocktail pairing?
Harel Levy: It’s a tough question because taste is something that is extremely subjective.
We usually put it with scotch. That’s our personal preference. Our customers get very creative with their ideas. That’s why we initially started with those six flavors. But listening to customer feedback, it’s going to grow and change.
Joe Winger: Over a year of research and development, were there any unexpected surprises?
Harel Levy: A lot of people agreed with me on the wooden box. People started asking for smoke refills. They’re going through the smoke faster than I thought. When we launched, I was expecting this to be used for special occasions. But people are using it every week, all the time.
Joe Winger: In the past few weeks, I’ve been in Los Angeles, Brooklyn, New York, Philadelphia. All those places have bars where they’re serving smoked drinks. Now people want to have that experience at home.
Harel Levy: That’s going to make you the hero of the party. You’re the one who brings the cool stuff. I always like to do that.
We really advise [anyone trying this] to taste all of the flavors. Not just one or two. The spectrum of what flavors someone likes or doesn’t like is very wide. You’re probably going to really like 1-2 [of the flavors], and less like the others.
Those 1-2 that you really like, we’re going to offer you refills.
When I host friends [at my house], I drink scotch and it goes well with cherry.
But it’s like a game. You try a lot of things. You find out something that you’re really going to love.
“That’s going to make you the hero of the party. You’re the one who brings the cool stuff.”
Joe Winger: This first kit is a starter kit or a sampler kit. I get those six flavors and I get to decide, “Oh my gosh, I really like this one. Now I need a refill.”
Harel Levy: Exactly. It’s exciting me on a personal level because I’m curious […]. What’s going to make people upgrade a scotch that costs hundreds of dollars?
I can play with the flavor. That will upgrade an experience for the end customer cost hundreds of dollars. I did my part, right? And for them, they’re going to be over the moon. They’re going to be super happy. It’s just going to become one of their routine.
“What’s going to make people upgrade a scotch that costs hundreds of dollars?”
Joe Winger: There are smoking kits all over the place. Dozens of competitors on Amazon. Why should someone choose Bark and Barware?
Harel Levy: It’s the full experience that we offer. It starts with the package. Then the flavors. Most of our competitors offer four, we offer six. We tasted all of the competitors and our flavor is better. Otherwise I would not have released the product.
Our post-purchase [experience] the recipes. We’re working with a mixologist to just create a mini course to go with the kit, go with specific drinks. Customers are going to have access to all of it. How do I mix it? What should I mix it with?
Joe Winger: What does the future of the brand look like?
Harel Levy: We’re planning to release big packages [re-fills] of each flavor. Second thing is the mini courses. We really want to inspire because that’s fun.
The process of drinking with friends, the process of smoking. It’s a fun process. You sit on your balcony, with friends, you open a bottle of wine as well. That’s a fun process.
Our goal is to inspire. Someone [will realize they] like a specific cocktail. We will give them all of the information on how to make it, how to mix it, then we earn a customer for life.
Joe Winger: You mentioned picking a cocktail is like picking a favorite kid. It’s so hard to do. What is your favorite cocktail to use with your smoker?
Harel Levy: Yeah, so that’s a great question. I like the combination of the apple and scotch.
Joe Winger: Because you’re a foodie, are there any specific cocktail and food pairings that you really enjoy with any of your specific flavors?
Harel Levy: My favorite is having an apple flavored scotch with a ribeye. Someone I work with loves the hickory flavor. That’s the beauty of this world, every person has their unique taste.
Shop for Bark and Barware’s Cocktail smoker hit on amazon here: https://amzn.to/3P5c42g
Learn more at: https://www.barkandbarware.com
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The uniqueness of mushroom coffee lies in its ability to enhance the usual coffee experience by potentially offering additional benefits. For those who find regular coffee too acidic, mushroom coffee presents a more stomach-friendly option. Additionally, it incorporates adaptogenic mushrooms, which are believed to help the body better manage stress. This attribute makes mushroom coffee especially enticing to wellness enthusiasts and those seeking a natural way to support their body’s stress response.
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Finding a coffee that delivers on both taste and health promises can be a daunting task. Leading the initiative is More.Longevity & Wellbeing with its Coffee Superfood Blends. These products are meticulously developed, selecting each ingredient for its quality and scientific backing, ensuring they contribute effectively to the blend. Flavors such as Salted Caramel Vanilla and Mocha are designed to mask the natural earthiness of mushroom, making the beverage more enjoyable while enhancing its appeal. The addition of adaptogens and essential vitamins in the blends aims to support overall health by boosting immunity, enhancing energy, and improving mental clarity.
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Are NYers falling in love with New Wine? Dancing Wines from Cynthia Russell, Lauren Russell
Are NYers falling in love with New Wine? Dancing Wines from Cynthia Russell, Lauren Russell in Dry Creek Valley, Sonoma County.
The team at Dancing Wines is developing a collection of sensory brands that celebrate life through taste, touch and aroma – inspiring you to find your inner dance and show the world what truly moves you.
Dancing Wines’ red wine trio includes Old Vine, Duo and Estate — three limited-release wines made from hand-picked grapes that showcase the full breadth of the Dancing estate.
Lauren Russell (L) and Cynthia Russell (R) from Dancing Wines Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Today’s conversation with the dynamic Mother / Daughter team Cynthia and Lauren Russell from Dancing Wines ha been edited for length and clarity.
For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Joe Winger: What is the most important message you’d like to share today?
Lauren Russell: I think one of them is dancing is art and art is life.
Another is love needs no explanation. I think really the thread between those is we’re trying to create a product and an experience that brings people together and invites them to find their inner dance, which is something we say a lot.
So we want to encourage people to find their unique rhythms. And wine is also really lovely because it is a vehicle that brings people together to enjoy a moment and diverse people together.
I think my Mom [Cynthia] can speak to this as well, but one of the things we thought about when first exploring wine was just how daunting the whole atmosphere is around the consumption of it and the buying and using all the right adjectives.
Especially for my generation I feel like there’s a bit of a learning curve. So I think one thing we really want people to take away from the brand is just like, just enjoy it. Love needs no explanation and you can’t drink wine when your mouth is full of adjectives. We’ve created a great wine just for you to be able to enjoy and to describe however you want and enjoy whenever you want.
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Cynthia: Yeah, I think the measures we created we have a beautiful heritage property that the soil and the climate create this great wine. And me being of an older generation where wine was very intimidating, even though I know a lot about it.
And drinking it for a very long time. I’ve lived in France. I’ve lived in California. It’s still when you order in a restaurant, you’re scared. Do I know enough? I’m going to be embarrassed. Is this the right pairing? And what the good news is that wine making in the world has become so sophisticated that if you are buying wine from a place that is special, including all.
Sonoma or France or Italy, the wines are good, they’re really good and all you have to do is be comfortable with yourself and enjoying it. And so that’s what we’re trying to do is take a product that has thousands of years of history as being a part of our culture and make you comfortable with just having fun, enjoying it and celebrating what wine can do to bring people together.
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Joe Winger: You have a really unique story that you restored a vineyard up in Dry Creek. Can you talk about experience and what you learned from the restoration?
Cynthia: We lucked out. It was a Covid purchase. We spent a lot of time as a family together in very small confined spaces drinking a lot of wine.
We [thought we] might end up needing a place where we have more outdoor space and can be together. So we bought this property more as a farm and then discovered that it was a unique part of the world.
Zinfandel grapes have been growing in this small region for over 150 years.
It was called America’s grape back in the time I think [the] 1850s. Okay, we have these vineyards. They’re really old.
There was one owner at this property for 60 years, an older Italian gentleman. And a lot of the area is multi generation, fourth generation Italian families who came over and cultivated this grape.
We never intended to make wine and yet we were scared to let this history and heritage die.
So we took classes and tried to figure out, can we make wine?
It’d be such a shame to let this history go in this special place.
We made a great discovery, which was that you don’t have to be an expert on wine. You just have to have great soil and a great climate.
Then we launched from there.
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Lauren: We’re always towing the line between the respective tradition and traditional winemaking and the land and all of the old vines and creating something new.
She [Mom, Cynthia] always brings a lens of respect for the older generation and ways of life and what wine has meant to her throughout her life.
I’m always pushing the other direction. We always land somewhere in the middle.
You’ll see that in the brands, it has really playful branding and packaging. But, our winemaking is a bit more traditional. We’re a sustainable vineyard but we have old vines and we respect what the land has to offer and what it’s been offering in that region for a long time.
It creates a better product and brand for us because we get to cater to both audiences.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: You have a collection of sensory brands. Can you talk about what that collection is, what inspired the idea, and what we should be looking for?
Lauren: All of the products have been and will be inspired by the backdrop of the vineyard.
When we talk about wine, we talk about this kind of multi sensory experience, whether that’s aroma or where you’re having it, who you’re enjoying it with.
We came into wine knowing that it was going to be not just about taste or smell, but about the holistic experience of what wine could do for someone.
Sort of the thread between all of our products are taste, touch and smell. Again, like finding your inner dance and allowing you to express your personality.
We’re launching a trio of fragrances, which are loosely inspired by the terroir and the vineyard.
Cynthia: We have a fresh perspective on Sonoma. Every time we arrive, we have this nose full of these incredible senses:, the smell of moss, crushed grapes, barrel, fire and oak.
Yeah. So we’re like, wow. Every time we arrive, we’re like, wow, this is really cool.
This is so distinct and unique and just elevates your experience of being there.
We are going to bring more experiences to the brand when we can, like having an artist in residence, creating visually beautiful contributions.
We have an art collection there that inspired us to bring art to the brand. It’s largely from a diverse group of artists from the West Coast who are very colorful and young and also push boundaries. So our idea with the senses is like we’re trying to This is a brand that you enter into our world and you get to experience people and life in a way that’s very unique and bold and
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: What are both of your backgrounds outside of wine?
Lauren: I was raised in Connecticut and went to Dartmouth for undergrad, was a creative non-fiction writer, so always had that storytelling bent.
After school, I worked at a lot of businesses in marketing. Uber Eats, Refinery29, right before the pandemic, I worked for AB and Bev that was my first kind of foray into alcohol.
Then during COVID, I got my MBA at Columbia. We all got this massive reset of our priorities. I come from an entrepreneurial family. This opportunity arose
Cynthia: We’re a family who really believes in experiences. I have dabbled in many different areas. I went to Scripps college. I actually was a dance major until I was not. I became an international relations major. I lived in France for a while. Then moved to New York City and worked for JP Morgan trading stock, money market securities.
I didn’t find that was my passion, so I went to Harvard Business School and I got a master’s in business. Then I worked for American Express where I started a weekend travel program. It was a little startup within the travel segment of American Express. I got my “sea legs” of starting a business.
I quit that business because I had kids, then I started my own mail order company then I decided again, that maybe I needed a little more education.
I went back and got a doctorate at Columbia in organizational leadership.
I have a consulting firm on the side where I consult leaders and organizations about how to handle complex challenges in a complex world.
So my daughter [Lauren] gets through business school and we decide to marry all these wonderful experiences together and create something really new and unique.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: Let’s talk about your wines.
Lauren: We launched with our rosé which is really beautiful. It’s an intentional rosé. From our Primitivo grapes and we harvested them early and intentionally for rosé.
It has this really beautiful distinct, watermelon, almost Jolly Rancher aroma, and it’s really playful and full, but also dry. And it’s been a really big hit so that was a fun debut for us.
We just launched our trio of reds, and what makes them unique goes into the story about the restoration of the vineyard.
We’re still learning our land and learning from it.
We chose to harvest from different blocks and treat the wines in a similar fashion and bottle them separately to see what personalities they expressed.
One is the Old Vine Zinfandel, which is from our oldest head trained vines which is the deepest, moodiest, richest wine. It’s really lovely.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Then we have an estate wine, which is actually from Primitivo, a different word for Zinfandel. That one is a bit lighter.
Then we have a third, a duo which is a blend of both. And so it’s really helped us to understand. And they are quite different.
They’re obviously all Zinfandels in their expressions, but they’re all quite different.
People say Zinfandel is like a map of the land and I think that’s really true here. Which is super cool.
But we have two forthcoming sparkling wines because I think it really speaks to our ethos about being playful and to my generation.
Cynthia: It’s really fun for us because being on the East coast, Zinfandel is a really unknown varietal and we think it’s underrated. Californians know it’s been around for a long time. It has a lot of possibilities with food. And so what we’re trying to do is bring to light this really good wine and do it in a slightly different way.
We pick ours earlier, trying to have it be less jammy, juicy, heavy; lighter, less alcoholic than some of the more traditional Zinfandels that are on our street.
That’s really trying to address the changes consumer changes.
Our wines are chillable, super easy to eat with most any food, especially ethnic food, spicy food.
2022 was our first vintage. 2023 is already in barrels and we’ll be bottling that in probably in March. But it’s going to be a little different because the climate was different that year.
The rosé was just a fluke. Our winemaker wanted to try a Zinfandel rosé. Most people love it. It’s so distinct and unique.
Our 24 Rosé will come out in March. The reds will come out in the early summer. We’re going to bottle the sparkling in January, but that will be at least a year until you’ll see that. The pétillant naturel will probably be launching at about the same time as the rosé
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Lauren: What’s fun about having both an early release sparkling and a [second, additional] later release [sparkling wine] one is going to be lighter, more effervescent, maybe geared towards the younger generation and the other will have that toastier champagne flavor.
Joe Winger: Do you have a favorite wine and food pairing?
Lauren: This one’s so hard. Rosé and oysters or any seafood is just awesome. Sparkling wine and a burger is one of my favorites.
In terms of red, when I think of Zinfandel, it’s Thanksgiving foods. It speaks to the hominess in our story. Bringing everyone around the table. Kind of experiential pairing.
Cynthia: Yeah, that resonates with me.
We have a lot of ethnic food, so it holds up really well to spice, to sweet and sour, salty and sweet. So it’s great with Indian food, Mexican food. Apples in your pork chops.
A burgundy is usually killed instantly by those kinds of flavors. It’s too fragile.
[Ours] is not fragile, but it still has so many nice aromas and flavors to enhance whatever you’re eating.
Lauren: It’s great with pizza. Pizza and a nice glass of Zinfandel
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Joe Winger: What’s something magical about Sonoma that you learned through this journey?
Lauren: True of both Zinfandel and Sonoma it always has this underdog energy to Napa. One of the hidden gems, we wake up really early and drive to the Redwood forest to watch the sun rise through the trees.
We eat a burrito because we have terrible burritos in New York.
There’s an amazing food community, 3 Michelin star restaurant, chefs, farm to table.
Cynthia: The distinct part of Sonoma is how important nature is to everyone there. It’s not just about wine. It’s incredible nature.
We both traveled a lot, lived in a lot of places. I’ve never seen such natural beauty in such a small area.
Lauren: That’s what the idea of our products is too. We have to bring people here in some way, differently than just having them taste the wine.
So as many dimensions as we can bring people into that realm to experience [00:29:00] that it’s like definitely the dream.
Joe Winger: Whether it’s social media, website, or other ways, what are the best ways for our audience to find and follow Dancing Wine?
Lauren: We have our website, which is wearedancing.com. We also are on Instagram, which is at DancingSonoma.
Southern sophistication Pours in NYC: Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails RTD Hard Tea Pours Nationwide
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea Launches Nationwide
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea – a canned ready-to-drink that launched earlier this spring in 13 test markets – is rolling out nationwide this fall.
The RTD embodies Southern sophistication with a twist.
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails Hard Tea combines black tea, ripe, true-to-fruit flavor resulting in a balanced and sweet finish. With four classic flavors carefully selected, each can was crafted to please the palates of today’s modern drinker.
Country Cocktails can be found in select retail and convenience stores across the country in a 12oz. can (ABV 5%), 12-can variety pack containing four classic flavors: Original, Peach, Raspberry, and Blackberry; with the Original & Peach offered in 16oz. and 23.5oz. single serve cans that deliver consumers a refreshing and high-quality beverage experience for those who appreciate a good tea.
- Original: Known for its full-bodied refreshing take on a Southern classic. Combining the rich taste of black tea with a sweet, true-to-fruit finish, captures the essence of Southern sweet tea. It’s the perfect drink for relaxing on the porch and enjoying good conversation.
- Peach: A floral flavor that brings the juicy, sun-ripened sweetness to life. This option offers a crisp and refreshing experience, where the delicate honeyed taste comes to the forefront of the palate making it a delightful choice for any day of the year.
- Raspberry: Delivering a vibrant tartness, yet balanced with a subtle sweetness; this flavor presents a bold and smooth drink that’s as satiating as it is refreshing.
- Blackberry: Capturing the rich and juicy essence of blackberries, it offers a slightly tangy and flavorsome experience, making it a perfect choice for consumers who enjoy the bold taste of berries with a hint of Southern charm.
Coinciding with Country Cocktails Hard Tea launch is the RTD’s partnership with ACM and two-time CMT Music Award winner, Lauren Alaina, who has accomplished one of country music’s crowning achievements – becoming the youngest member of the Grand Ole Opry.
Lauren Alaina’s small town Georgia roots, love for comfort and authenticity make her the perfect ambassador for a beverage that prides itself on delivering a taste of the South in every sip. Both Alaina and Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails symbolize Southern charm, together producing a match made partnership.
To celebrate the collaboration, Country Cocktails has partnered with Southern Living to offer fans across the country a chance to enter their sweepstakes and win a pair of tickets and flights to meet Lauren Alaina at her concert in Las Vegas at the Green Valley Ranch Backyard Amphitheater on October 25, 2024.
The sweepstakes will run from September 13 until October 11, 2024 and contestants can enter for a chance to win by visiting the link.
About Jack Daniel’s
Officially registered by the U.S. Government in 1866 and based in Lynchburg, Tenn., the Jack Daniel Distillery is the first registered distillery in the United States and is on the National Register of Historic Places.
Jack Daniel’s is the maker of the world-famous Jack Daniel’s Old No. 7 Tennessee Whiskey, Gentleman Jack Double Mellowed Tennessee Whiskey, Jack Daniel’s Single Barrel Tennessee Whiskey, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Honey, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Fire, Jack Daniel’s Tennessee Apple, Jack Daniel’s Bonded, Jack Daniel’s Sinatra Select, and Jack Daniel’s RTDs. Today, Jack Daniel’s is a true global icon found in more than 170 countries around the world and is the most valuable spirits brand in the world as recognized by Interbrand.
About Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails are premium malt beverages from the Jack Daniel’s Family of Brands. Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails was introduced in May 1992.
Jack Daniel’s Country Cocktails and their respective flavor names are registered trademarks. © 2024 Jack Daniel’s. Jack Daniel Beverage Co., Louisville, Ky. Flavored Malt Beverage.
For more information, please visit www.countrycocktails.com.
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Incredible Flavor and History at “Homage to Our Rivers”: Spanish Wine Academy Pours at NYC’s City Winery June 20 — Flavor, History and Wine
Flavor, History and Wine – Spanish Wine Academy Pours “Homage to Our Rivers” at NYC’s City Winery June 20, 2023
Spain’s Penin Guide winemakers gathered in Manhattan on June 20 to pour their best wines for a crowd of Sommeliers, wine retailers and wine critics.
Spanish Wine Academy Pours “Homage to Our Rivers”
The Penin Guide, first published in 1990, is the most comprehensive Spanish wine guide in the world. With editions in Spanish, English, German and Chinese, it is the most widely used tool for amateurs and professionals to make purchasing decisions on Spanish wine.
It’s a must-have resource for restaurants, wine shops and critics.
Part of the event featured a masterclass on Spanish regions, ‘Homage to Our Rivers’ led by Ana Riaz.
‘Homage to Our Rivers’ led by Ana Riaz.
While Spain’s rivers haven’t reached the wine trade fame that classic European wines rivers like Rhone, the Loire, the Po or the Garonne mostly because they were very difficult to navigate.
But Spain’s rivers have created a more important element for their region’s wine – and that is the discovery of this masterclass.
Spanish Wine Academy Pours “Homage to Our Rivers”
As we taste through the areas and learn how each Spanish region’s flavor and aroma is tied to their rivers. With peaks, valleys and their overall geology has created some of today’s most outstanding Spanish Vineyards and generations of Spanish winemakers who have taken care of the vineyards.
Rivers and Rias by the Atlantic Ocean
In Galicia at the “top left corner” of Spain, the topography has been excavated by jagged river valleys. At the mouth of the large river, where the tide meets the stream is locally called “Rias”.
A perfect area to grow Albarino from the Salnes Valley, Inland on the banks of Ulla
Albarino, Mar de Frades 2022 DO Rias Baixas
Albarino, Mar de Frades 2022 DO Rias Baixas
Mango, pineapple and lychees on the nose, with wild flowers and notes of eucalyptus. Bright, fresh and vivacious on the palate, the tropical fruit flavors with a hint of salinity.
Albarino Mar de Frades Finca Monteveiga 2018 DO Rias Baixas
Albarino Mar de Frades Finca Monteveiga 2018 DO Rias Baixas
Medium pale yellow. A refreshing nose of citrus, herbal and grassy. Clean, bright acidity leading to passion fruit on the palate. Pair with shellfish, sushi, pasta with cream sauce, and soft cheeses.
Duero, the Lord of the High Plateau
Duero is an area with a long wine history and surprising diversity also known as “the backbone of Spain’s Northern Plateau.”
Growing their grapes more than 800 meters above sea level and under extreme Continental climate.
Duero offers wines of great character from two distinct areas: Rueda, a region specialized in white wines, and the famous Ribera del Duero, specifically the so-called “Golden Mile”.
Ramon Bilbao Verdejo Sobre Lias 2019 DO Rueda
Deep gold in the glass. Aromas of guava, papaya. Velvety dark chocolate, cocoa beans and vanilla on the palette. Pair it with roasted chicken, mushroom risotto.
Cruz de Alba Crianza 2019 D.O. Ribera del Duero
Medium ruby. Minty and herbal aromas, more herbaceous and less citrus. Palette brings cedar, clove, with a soft finish. Pair this with meat-heavy charcuterie, meaty lasagna.
River Ebro On the Mediterranean Side of Rioja
Upper Rioja is where Spain’s wine story began and the origin of Bodegas Ramon Bilboa.
The Sierra de Yerga area in Rioja Oriental boasts a Mediterranean lifestyle and many different expressions of Garnacha to taste and discover.
La Lomba Finca Lalinde 20232 DOCa Rioja – Rioja Oriental
La Lomba Finca Lalinde 20232 DOCa Rioja Rioja Oriental
Medium pink in the glass, this nose is Valencia orange and dried thyme. Mouth evolves from bright grapefruit, notes of jasmine, sage and white chocolate with a nice long finish. Pairs well with roasted pork, shellfish.
Ramon Bilbao Limite Sur 2018 Garnacha from different plots in Yerga Mountain DOCa Rioja – Rioja Oriental
Medium ruby in the glass. Raspberry, red currant on the nose. Intense tomato, bell pepper, white pepper and mint flavors. Sweet vanilla. Well balanced, smooth tannins, long finish. Enjoy this paired with poultry or pork with spicier toppings or sides like red pepper and paprika.
River Tiron Valley, North of Rioja
The Ebro, a section of the Rioja Alta, is a fertile, wine-growing area. It receives the water from the river Tiron, a perfect mix of Mediterranean, Continental and Atlantic influences.
Lalomba Finca Valhonta 2017 Tempranillo DOCa Rioja
Deep purple in the glass. Blueberry, blackberry, black currant, black plum on the nose. Palate shows ripe red currant with tobacco and leather. Medium body, good structure, medium finish. Pair it with a steak.
Ramon Bilbao Mirto 2016 Tempranillo DOCa Rioja
Inky purple in the glass, aromas of raspberry and espresso bean. Heavy body on the palate, with flavors of cassis, pomegranate, tobacco, coffee. Plush tannins with a long finish. Pairs well with grilled BBQ and gamey meats.
Founded in 1924, Ramon Bilbao is globally recognized as one of Spain’s most innovative wine producers.
Led by Rodolfo Bastida, it is committed to crafting wines that express the native terroir. Ramon Bilbao is part of Zamora Company group along with two other wineries: Mar De Frades and Cruz de Alba.
The Spanish Wine Academy is the wine training platform by Ramon Bilbao, aiming to promote an add value to the knowledge and consumption of Spanish wine globally
Kudos and cheers to Ana Riaz, the entire Penin team. Thank you Morgan Perry and Sicily Cronin.
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NYC Foodies Head to Colorado: Winemaker Ben Parsons from The Ordinary Fellow reveals Wine, Food and Nature in Palisade CO
NYC Foodies Head to Colorado: Winemaker Ben Parsons from The Ordinary Fellow reveals wine, food and nature
Ben Parsons, Winemaker and Owner of The Ordinary Fellow in Palisade, Colorado
Today’s conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Joe Winger:
Just to touch on background a little bit, you were the winemaker and founder of a very successful urban winery, the Infinite Monkey Theorem.
Then you chose to move on to where you are now at The Ordinary Fellow.
What was that transition like for you?
Ben Parsons:
The Infinite Monkey Theorem was really about disrupting the wine industry and trying to make wine fun and relevant and accessible.
We were the first ones in the U.S. to put wine in the can. We started kegging in 2008.
It was really about creating these urban winery spaces, just a tap room for a craft brewery in a city where everyone could come down and enjoy.
After 11 years of taking that to a 100,000 case production distributed in 42 states, there was a really good opportunity for me to get back to what I wanted to do, which is being in a vineyard.
Even though that might sound like a cliche, there is something quite romantic about farming and being surrounded by nature and really trying to make the very best wine you can from Colorado fruit that you grow and putting it in a bottle versus buying someone else’s wine and putting it in a can, they’re like two very different things.
I had an opportunity to take over a vineyard in southwest Colorado down in the Four Corners just outside of Cortez, where the Four Corners meet.
It was in disrepair and hadn’t been pruned in four years. So I got back in there and now it’s looking really good.
So that’s taken 4 years. Yeah it’s relatively small. It’s 13 acres of Riesling, Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon.
Sits at 6,000 feet elevation. So very high for a commercial vineyard. And it’s beautiful.
It sits on a national monument called the Yucca House, which is an un-excavated ancestral Pueblan ruin from between the 10th and 12th century.
Starts at Mesa Verde, which most people are familiar with for the ancestral cliff dwellings from the Pueblans down there. It’s just a beautiful location.
Yeah, two very different things, but kind of coming full circle almost as to what I got me into the industry in the beginning, back in the late 90s.
And now back there, but doing it on my own.
Palisade Colorado Winemaker Ben Parsons takes a Vineyard Tour
Joe Winger:
Your famous quote in the wine world: “I miss being in the vineyard”
So for our audience, who’s going to go to wine country this weekend or this summer, when they take a vineyard tour, what should they be looking at?
Ben Parsons:
As to how wine gets from a vineyard and a grape to a bottle. Most people think it just ends up on a grocery store shelf and that is not the case.
It’s really the idea that you could grow something from rootstock, farm it, suffer the vagaries of agricultural production, deal with all of those challenges, do it in a sustainable way.
Ben Parsons, Winemaker and Owner of The Ordinary Fellow in Palisade, Colorado
Determine when you’re going to pick that fruit. Take it into the winery. Ferment it. Turn it into wine. Age it in a barrel. Bottle it. Decide on the branding. Decide on the naming. Come up with a label design.
Take it to all of those small awesome restaurants that everyone wants to hang out at because they’re making great food and getting good press.
You see my wine or I see my wine on someone else’s table, drinking it and to think where that came from.
And how many times those grapes got moved from a to b and then back, from b to c and then c to d whether it be like shoveling grapes with a pitchfork for a destemmer.
Or shoveling fermented grapes into a press with a Home Depot bucket.
Or picking that case up and taking it from here to here, that got handled so many times, so much went into that, that I think there’s a huge disconnect amongst most consumers.
Palisade Colorado Winemaker Ben Parsons on the Area’s Natural Beauty
Joe Winger:
You chose to be in Palisade, Colorado making your wine.
Tell us a little bit about the region and why someone should come visit you in Colorado?
Ben Parsons:
Palisade is beautiful. It’s on the Western slope of Colorado. It’s about a 4 hour drive West of Denver over the mountains.
About 4 1/2 hours East of Salt Lake City.
It’s an American Viticultural Area designate called the Grand Valley and it’s pretty stunning.
You come through this Canyon called the Back Canyon on the North side, you have these book cliff mountains that rise above you on the South side, you have the Colorado River, and it’s a very niche microclimate. It’s definitely an agricultural community.
What a lot of people don’t realize, because they just drive straight past on I-70 is it’s proximity to all things good, outdoorsy.
Within 28 minutes I could be at a local ski resort called Powderhorn. It got 32 feet of snow last year
I’m an hour and a half from Aspen.
I’m an hour and 20 minutes from Moab.
I’m a 10 minute drive from Fruita, which has the best mountain biking in the world.
It’s all old Indian territory. There’s wild mustangs up on the book cliffs.
It’s known for its fruit. It’s actually known for its peaches, believe it or not. Some of the best peaches grown anywhere in the United States. Arguably the best.
But it’s a very small microclimate.
Palisade is around 4,500 feet elevation. There’s about 26 wineries you can tour and visit. Take a few days, spend a weekend.
There’s some good local restaurants, growing their own produce and making real good farm to table food.
Grand Junction is a city that in the last 5 years has really exploded.
And Grand Junction is 10 minutes from Palisade. It went through a series of boom and busts during the oil shale boom business back in the day, but now it’s strongly focused on tourism.
Lots of people are leaving the front range of Denver, Colorado Springs and moving to the Western slope for a kind of quality of life.
Also we have a lot of California transplants because it is cheaper to live. You are outdoors all the time. You can travel long distances very quickly. I put 42,000 miles on my car this year delivering wine all over the state of Colorado.
I feel like the state and this particular area has a lot going for it. Definitely more than enough to fill a long weekend or a week’s trip.
Exploring vineyards, food, farms, outdoor opportunities.
Taking a trip to Moab, it’s really pretty. It’s one of the reasons I moved here.
I’d been in the city for a long time. I grew up just South of London in England, but I lived in London for some time and I loved it when I was young. I love Denver as well.
When I started the Infinite Monkey Theorem, that was really when a lot of people were moving to Denver and it was becoming something substantial.
It was one of the fastest growing cities in the country at that time.
I feel like we were a big part of pushing that growth and in tandem with the other food and beverage scene, like craft breweries and good restaurants.
Joe Winger:
You’ve mentioned different restaurants and food and dinner. Our audience primarily are foodies. We’re in Colorado for a wine weekend, we come to the Ordinary Fellow for a wine tasting.
Can you suggest a few places and different cuisines that are a must visit within 20-30 minutes of you?
Ben Parsons:
In Palisade there’s a good restaurant called Pesh. One of the former line cooks at a linear in Chicago started it with his wife, maybe 5-6 years ago. It’s excellent.
In Grand Junction, where most people stay there’s a few good restaurants started by this guy, Josh Nirenberg, who has been nominated for James Beard award several times for best chef and has one called Bin 707, Then he just opened a third called Jojo’s. He also has a kind of trendy taco spot called Taco Party, which is a fun name.
If you like craft cocktails, there’s a new place that opened called Melrose Spirit Company. Guy opened it in a hotel that was recently renovated. Really cute, really excellent cocktails.
Joe Winger:
Let’s get into the wine geek stuff now and talk about your vineyards. You have Colorado Box Bar, Hawks Nest.
So let’s talk through terroir, soil type, elevation.
Ben Parsons:
So Box Bar, It’s in Cortez, sits around between 6,000 feet elevation.
It’s on this weatheral loam that has some clay in it, which has these water retention properties. It is essentially a desert. So you do have to drip irrigate, there’s less than 7 inches of precipitation a year.
So very little rainfall which is good in some ways in that there is very little disease pressure.
You’re not having to spray. There’s no necessity to spray for powdery mildew or anything down at our vineyards.
It’s essentially farmed very minimalistically.
Lagging very sustainably, which I know people appreciate.
Riesling, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay. We’re just planting some Chenin Blanc and some Charbonneau, which is an italian red varietal as well.
Hawk’s Nest is not my own property, but I work with a grower called Guy Drew who planted four different kinds of Pinot Noir and two different kinds of Chardonnay there.
That vineyard is at 6, 800 feet and that is the highest commercial vineyard in North America.
Similar soil properties as the Box Bar. Making some really good Pinot Noir.
I think what’s interesting about Colorado is we have a very short growing season, 155 – 165 days. Napa has 240 days. That’s frost free days.
So the thing is that we have such high sunlight exposure because of the elevation and the ultraviolet light that we have the same number of degree days as Napa Valley. So we can ripen like Cabernet Sauvignon, but we’re ripening it in a shorter period of time. That’s fairly unique.
The Ordinary Fellow is really focusing on traditional French varietals from Chenin Blanc Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah.
Most recently we took over a vineyard in Utah so I’m actually farming a vineyard about 1 ½ hour drive from Moab called Montezuma Canyon Ranch.
That’s this ancient sandstone with a little bit of clay in there that was planted in 2007. 12 acres of Chenin Blanc, Merlot, Riesling Chardonnay. We made an awesome Utah Rosé vineyard last harvest 2023, which we just released.
You don’t see that many wines from Utah so that’s why I’m excited about it.
I think there’s only 6 wineries in Utah and I’m not sure that many of them get their fruit from Utah.
Joe Winger:
You mentioned that you have one of the highest peak elevation commercial vineyards in North America.
What are the benefits and the disadvantages to such a high elevation?
Ben Parsons:
If you think about spending any time on a mountain, it can be really warm, but as soon as the sun goes down, it gets very cold.
So having high elevation vineyards, even though you might be in a quite a hot growing region as soon as the sun goes down, the temperature does drop.
You have a large diurnal temperature shift.
So in Cortez, in the growth, during the growing season or during ripening, say late September, mid September, late September. We could be 85 to 90 in the day, but 45 to 50 at night, which is a really big temperature swing.
It basically means that the vine has a kind of chance to just shut down and rest.
From an enology perspective, you can retain more natural acidity in the fruit because it’s not being metabolized by having a lot of sunlight constantly and higher temperature. So we don’t have to make any artificial acid additions or anything like that you may have to do in more established wine regions in the United States.
Our wines all have really great balance to them and really good acidity. None of them are overdone. They’re not big, jammy, overly alcoholic.
They’re all well balanced between acids, tannin, alcohol, sugar, but they’re all bone dry.
There is no fermentable sugar in any of them, which leads to palate weight and mouthfeel, but but they’re not sweet per se.
Even my Riesling is bone dry.
Joe Winger:
During the Infinite Monkey Theorem days you led the canned wines movement.
How does it feel seeing it become so incredibly popular and any big lessons you learned from that experience?
Ben Parsons:
I genuinely believe that [we led with canned wines]. In 2009 we entered into a R and D project with Ball Corporation, the largest supply of aluminum cans in the world.
To figure out how to can wine and everyone thought it was stupid and everyone just turned their noses up at it and thought that RTD wine and RTD drinks were stupid.
It’s a tough question because I think that canned wine is good because of its use application, primarily. Where you can take it and where you can drink it.
Now, very rarely do I see people putting the best wine they’ve ever made in a can. So I think it’s all about where you want to drink it, who you want to drink it with. There’s definitely this kind of utility aspect to it.
Also price point wise, you don’t see that many canned wine, four packs above $16,
I would say so. Yeah, price wise, it’s fairly economical from a sustainability perspective. It makes a lot of sense.
But from an absolute quality perspective, you’re probably still going to be buying bottled wine over canned wine.
It’s all about where you’re going to consume it.
Sometimes when I see it I think about when you start any category, there’s always those people that are out there doing it way before anyone else is doing it. It’s those people that usually don’t reap the benefits of it because they put all of the effort into it.
I look at LinkedIn occasionally and I’m just baffled by people that think that it’s a new thing. It just blows my mind.
Joe Winger:
You have an excellent sparkling wine and you’ve mentioned England’s excitement about the sparkling.
Why is England falling in love with sparkling wine? And why should all of us be falling in love with sparkling wine?
Ben Parsons:
Historically, England has consumed a lot of sparkling wine.
But in terms of actually growing grapes and making their own sparkling wine, that’s happened in the last 20 years.
That’s one of those unfortunate advantages of global warming in a kind of isolated geographical area that previously, you wouldn’t have been able to ripen Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Pinot Meunier.
It would have been a challenge making really good sparkling wine in Kent and Sussex and Southeast England where a lot of it is made.
But with a few degrees temperature rise, that’s now possible. And it’s the same chalk escarpment as champagne. They’re very close to each other.
They’re just separated by 24 miles of the English Channel, right?
So they’re actually geographically very close to each other a little further than 24 miles, but climatically very similar.
So actually, a lot of French champagne houses have bought up land in Kent and Sussex over the last 20 years and have been planting that, and now some of the bubbles are coming out.
Joe Winger:
When I have an opportunity to speak with an Oregon winemaker, we often talk about the challenges based on their region. Do you feel like you are also in a region [Colorado] that’s more problematic?
Can you share a lesson you’ve learned from solving some of those problems?
Ben Parsons:
The whole industry because of the shortness of the growing season, it’s always on a knife edge because you can have late spring frosts that can come through a bud break and just wipe you out.
But you can also have these freak-like early winter freezes in October where there’s there’s still fruit hanging or maybe it’s just come off and it goes from 70 degrees in the day to 8 degrees suddenly, and the sap still flowing in the vines and then all of the vines, the trunks split, the cordon split.
That’s what happened in Palisade maybe 3 or 4 years ago now.
Then in Cortez where Box Bar is, last year we had a hailstorm come through just after the bud break. So our Chardonnay was out and got wiped out. Then the secondary buds pushed and we went from a crop of 36 tons to 10 tons overnight.
That’s just agriculture anywhere. Unfortunately that’s just one of the risks.
Joe Winger:
Let’s talk about wine. Their flavor profiles. The different bottles you offer.
When we come visit your tasting room in Palisade, Colorado any hints about what they should be excited to taste?
Ben Parsons:
Blanc de Noir
Yeah the sparkling wine, that’s Blanc de Noir, so that’s 100% Pinot Noir. That’s about as geeky as it gets, because that’s single vineyard, single grower, single clone of Pinot Noir. only 8 months in barrel. The base wine was barrel aged for about 6 months, and then it was entourage, lying on its utilise in a bottle for six months.
Then it’s put on a riddling rack and hand riddled one bottle at a time. Then disgorged by hand, just take the top off, put your thumb over the top of it so nothing comes out and then no dosage.
So again, just super geeky, like really bone dry, like really crisp, great acid. So that is that wine is super hands on.
It’s delicious. It still gets those more developed, brioche-y notes. Texturally it’s very pleasing on the palate. I think we make really good method champignons, bottle fermented sparkling wine.
Chardonnay
A lot of people these days think it’s trendy to not like chardonnay, because they heard somewhere about that, but there are actually some really good Chardonnays out there, which aren’t all aged in new French oak and haven’t all gone through like a creamy buttery secondary fermentation. And I think mine is one of them. It was aged in 8 year old barrels. So there’s really no influence on it at all.
It’s all hand harvested or whole cluster pressed. I think that wine has a really pretty texture, like this palette coating texture but it has really good acidity and it smells like a ripe peach or a dried apricot. It’s really pretty.
Pinot Noir
Our red pinot noir. Again that spent just 9 months in neutral barrels so I think there was a trend like 20 years ago to put everything in a brand new barrel and every winemakers thought it was cool, but you know in the last 5 – 6 years, I think that has changed
Winemakers are really trying to let the soil and let their vineyards speak for themselves.
Minimal kind of intervention to a certain extent. It is the trend.
Our Pinot Noir has done really well. It’s on the much lighter side. I would say it’s more like a German style Pinot Noir, like lighter with really good acidity, firm tannin. Beautiful aroma.
I think all of our wines are just very well balanced. Very food friendly, very clean. They’re not funky. I’m very proud of that.
Joe Winger:
I’m assuming balance and the clean is a style choice by you?
Ben Parsons:
Balance is easy because it’s done in the vineyard because of the elevation and the retention of acidity. It’s just about when you pick it. So you’re tasting [the grapes] for flavor and like phenolic ripeness and the seeds being brown, et cetera, but you’re also testing a few for your pH, your titratable acidity and your sugar levels. Then you make an informed decision as to when you’re picking it.
The cleanliness part of it really just comes down to the fact that I feel like winemakers, even though this doesn’t sound very romantic, you’re almost just like an insurance manager in that you don’t want to mess it up.
So you make informed decisions, preemptively. You top your barrels, like every 2-3 weeks, you do things to make sure the wine, does not end up flawed through a secondary characteristic developing.
Sometimes that’s a flavor enhancer and sometimes that’s good, but when it’s overdone… I believe there are a lot of wines that they get away with it these days. To me it’s just bad winemaking.
I’m definitely kind of a minimal interventionist
Joe Winger:
I always feel like white wine doesn’t get enough love and respect. People love talking about the complexities of reds. You make a phenomenal Riesling.
Ben Parsons:
Interestingly I really don’t drink red wine anymore. Occasionally I’ll drink some Pinot Noir, but I much prefer drinking white wines. I think a lot of people in the industry crave acidity, and yeah, my reasoning is a good example.
The general consumer in the U. S. still thinks that all raisins are sweet. I think that’s just a common misconception, that’s purely a stylistic choice from the winemaker, and my choice is to allow the yeast to ferment all of the sugar until there is no residual sugar.
To have a wine with high natural acidity that pairs well with food. That’s my choice as a winemaker. Those are the wines that I enjoy most that kind of just leave your palate just like this rasping acidity. Take the enamel off your teeth, and but have beautiful aroma.
Our Riesling is starting to show some characteristics from being in the bottle for 18 months. Where it gets those kind of, it’s tough to say about making it sound bad, but those more kerosene-y , kind of petroleum, kind of eraser like notes, which are very typical of Riesling, intertwined with really nice citrus and green apple.
Yeah, and like really just good structure. That benefits from growing at elevation here for sure.
Joe Winger:
Petit Verdot is probably lesser known, less popular, but it deserves all the love anyway.
Ben Parsons:
Petit Verdot, interesting, like one of the six red Bordeaux grape varieties. Bordeaux is maritime climate. It’s much cooler than Colorado.
It doesn’t really get the chance to ripen as well as it does here. So when it can ripen, it doesn’t just need to get blended into Cabernet Sauvignon or something to just give it more tannin and more structure.
Here it can stand alone as a single varietal.
The greenness is gone. The tannin is not like just rip your face off tannin. It’s well developed. Like silky, velvety, firm, but not like really dry and like Petit Verdot can be. Aromatics are very lifted on it, and it’s not a massive red wine by any means.
That’s grown at a vineyard about half an hour from Box Bar called Canyon of the Ancients and that vineyard was planted in 2006.
Unfortunately we only made about 99 cases of that wine. It’s fun to introduce people to wines that they probably haven’t heard of, but wines that that can stand up to any good red wines that you may have heard of.
Palisade Colorado Winemaker Ben Parsons reveals his Favorite Food
Joe Winger:
Do you identify yourself as a foodie? Can you pick 1-2 of your bottles and your favorite dish for dinner tonight?
Ben Parsons:
Yeah I would definitely pair my Riesling with a Thai curry or even a panang curry. I think it does really well with oriental food that has some level of heat to it. But also I think it does really well with a charcuterie plate, some almonds and some cheese. I think you can’t go wrong with that.
Then my Petit Verdot, for example I think there is more tannin in there. For those of us that like the light grilling you couldn’t go wrong with serving that with a ribeye. It’s delicious. Or if you’re cooking a little heartier food in the winter, maybe a lasagna. Something that can really work with that tannin.
I think my wines do well with a lot of different food just because of the balance that they have, they’re not going to overpower the food and vice versa, which is what it’s all about.
But I also enjoy them, just having a glass on its own, to be honest. When I get home from work, sometimes I love that.
Joe Winger:
I’m watching your Instagram videos quite a bit, and it seems like you’re having a lot of fun sharing knowledge, showing your vineyard, showing what it’s like day to day.
Ben Parsons:
The one time that I do enjoy social media is when you’re in the vineyard or you’re doing something that seems that other people might never have seen before.
I’m in awe of where I am because I feel like it comes across in those videos. It’s pretty down here today, and those are beautiful vineyard sites.
Or if you’re filtering a wine or racking a wine or, trying or shoveling grapes.
Just the imagery comes across and really shows how much work is involved in it. I always struggle when it’s like go take a photo of a bottle of wine in front of a restaurant. I don’t know how you make that look cool.
Find more about Ben Parson’s The Ordinary Fellow website, instagram
More about Palisade, CO
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Daytime TV Star Thaao Penghlis Seducing Celebrities in His newest Book
Daytime TV Star Thaao Penghlis Seducing Celebrities wants to Give You a Taste at his next dinner party. Read all about it in his new book.
Thaao Penghlis has starred in some of the biggest TV shows of all time – including playing on daytime TV’s “Days of Our Lives”.
Thaao Penghlis new book Seducing Celebrities: One Meal at a Time
Now in Thaao’s new book, Seducing Celebrities: One Meal at a Time he reveals seduction in the dining room by creating incredibly delicious for his famous friends.
Today’s conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Joe Winger
Congratulations on your new book. It’s a tasty read and a fast read.
Thank you for joining us for a conversation today.
Thaao Penghlis:
Thank you for inviting me.
Joe Winger:
You’ve done a lot of work in your life. We’re going to go to food and books as quickly as possible.
When you’re at an airport or in public, what is the most common thing people remember you from?
Thaao Penghlis:
Certainly Days [of our Lives]. There’s a big Armenian contingency out there who always comes at me at the airports, [Days…] was in 152 markets. Especially when you’re in New York and it’s an international port. When Mission [Impossible] was on. I certainly enjoyed that. I think it had a large male audience because of the action and that I liked it was interesting. That kind of prepared me for the masks that I did on Days [of Our Lives]. So it was a real challenge. Working in daytime; I think the biggest challenge is remembering all those lines and giving it some kind of conviction and taking those lines off the page.
And a lot of the time, because there’s too many lines, we’re just on the edge, and so because I have a certain intensity I’m able to cover. I think through all those years people, airports probably are the biggest. I’m going to do a PA [public appearance] at the Grand Canyon in August.
It’s a very special train ride through the Grand Canyon with just 22 fans. It’s going to be a very intimate affair. So over the years, you get the older people who are the real followers, because the youth today have different appetites.
Just like they do with food, they’re not always conscious about what they’re eating. Unless they’re educated about it or they’re raised on good food. And I think today food has become a convenience rather than a celebration.
Joe Winger:
You use wonderful words in your book. It feels almost like poetry. “Food is the magic of our universe.” Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Thaao Penghlis:
We’ve been given such diversity as far as food is concerned, that we have that many choices, especially in countries that can afford food. But to me, once you’ve grown up tasting octopus – we used to hang it on the [clothes] line for three weeks until it dried out. There’s no blood in the octopus, therefore, it doesn’t rot – that was mouthwatering.
Some of the fruits you have in life, like mangos. When you can appreciate the way they’re being served. It’s not like eating an apple. If you eat a mango and you slice it, then cut it up in quarters, there’s a different texture to it. The flavor. To the eye it becomes attractive. I think food, when you think about what you can control in your life and you are blessed to have it. I think food is magical because of that.
Joe Winger:
One more line of food poetry from your book. “You discover your body’s secrets by the way you feed it and how it feeds you back. “
Thaao Penghlis:
When we who are in the Greek Orthodox church, we go through a fast to the last day [of holidays like Easter] before we go to the church and get the bread and the wine.
You start to appreciate the food that you can’t have because of its limitations in the religion. The last day you’ll have olive oil on bread with some sugar, things like that. So when you get to food and understand it, when you stop eating and cleanse your body, sometimes it just juices, you become hungry.
You get to understand what food does to the body by emptying it out. If you don’t eat well, or if you eat late, then the next day, you’re not going to feel great.
So you get to understand what the body can take and what, and when, are the limitations to eating and at what hour, if you drink too much wine.
As an actor, I don’t drink very much. But if I have wine, the next day, my eyes are going to show it. So it tells me something about the kidneys, because the eyes are connected to the kidneys. So it’s understanding how the machine you’ve brought into life carries your soul. How does that express itself in the best way possible?
As actors, we have a responsibility because of that body being presented on camera as a certain responsibility to the producers to the show and to your audience. So you get to understand. I would go through a four day fast with Bela’s broth, Celsius broth. I would find that would cleanse me through the days I did like a liver cleanse, which got rid of stones.
You get to understand what the organs are, that you can do things naturally without having to take all those dreadful medicines and those pills.
The body is all we’ve got. Why have I overcome certain things in my life? It’s always been through nutrition.
Joe Winger:
Your journey, the things you’ve learned, and you touch upon that in the book a little bit, lessons you learn from different actors and producers and people you’ve worked with, but that’s another great lesson is as far as using it as a medicine.
The book is called Seducing Celebrities: One Meal at a Time. It is an enormous undertaking: beautiful pictures, recipes, Hollywood stories, your family. There’s a lot going on.
What inspired you to write the book?
Thaao Penghlis:
The hardcover has all the colored pictures inside. So it has a different dimension to it when you actually see it, because let’s face it, presentation is very important.
So when you see color, when you see something displayed you want to get into it. If something looks like someone just piled something, it’s not attractive to the appetite.
My manager called me one day and he said, “You always talk about food. Why don’t you do a cookbook?”
I went, “Oh, I don’t know how to do a cookbook. Everything that I’ve caught has come out of my head.”
I remembered, I learned when I worked at the UN [United Nations] for a year when I was in the diplomatic corps. In my youth I went into kitchens where they had chefs. I saw presentation. I understood the etiquette of arriving there on time.
45 minutes later you’re having the hors d’oeuvres, maybe it’s champagne, maybe it’s some caviar or whatever they presented.
Then it was time to go into the dining room and sit there. It became a ritual. And so you got to appreciate the time, the presentation that someone put in.
So all these memories came into my head. I said how would you think? How do you think about food? I said it’s really seducing people, isn’t it?
By the way you create an atmosphere, by the way you look at a dish, and by the aroma. So I said, Let’s call it “Seducing.”
I said who have I seduced?
How about celebrities that I’ve met and worked with? That’s how it came about seducing celebrities. One meal at a time.
I always like to serve the first, second and the third course. But usually, I don’t join the guests on the first course, because I’m busy preparing the main course.
So I present the first course to them. Then I’m in the kitchen. The actor, Danny Kaye in the old days. He used to be an expert of Chinese food and around the counter in his kitchen is where his friends sat and he just fed them. That was something that was so gratifying for him.
So I understand if it’s done well, and your friends leave. They take it for granted.
People don’t cook these days, or they’re intimidated because of the way you’ve presented it. So therefore let’s take you out instead. So you don’t get that personal touch that I think is so important.
When you sit around your watering hole, as I call it, that “table”, which is something if when I leave this country eventually and go home to Australia, that is one thing I’m going to take with me is that table because it has a huge history to it.
To me the table and how you decorate it and how you present it is very important to the appetite of the person joining you.
Joe Winger:
I’m thinking of your table, sometime in the future when you do move, that could be a heck of an auction item. The amount of people who sat around it and heard stories and shared stories.
Speaking of those stories, you’ve named huge Hollywood stars like Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson George Clooney, amazing actors, Joanna Cassidy, William Hurt.
Your Hollywood life has been so many decades of work and amazing people. What was the process like deciding who makes it into the book and deciding who you had to leave out?
Thaao Penghlis:
You don’t like everybody you’ve worked with and everybody you’ve met, food is very personal
In the old days they serve you poison. In the French 18th century, you’d be sitting there and if you were an enemy, they’d serve you a dish with poison. That’s how they got rid of enemies. But I don’t know.
Dame Edna, who I was best man at his wedding, which is Barry Humphries. He was very particular. He was also a person who loved art. So he would walk around my house looking at what kind of a collection and made his judgment on it.
The same thing with the food, he would taste it. He would give you that quite qualifying look that he approves.
Omar Sharif was different. When I worked with him, we had champagne and caviar every day, because that’s the way he lived.
[He would be] telling me stories of Lawrence of Arabia and many of his other films and I think, because I look like his son, he was very taken not in the beginning. In the beginning, he was quite rude and quite distant. It wasn’t until I was about to start the first scene with him where he comes into the room and when I met him, he was distant, shook my hand and said, “Hello”.
So when he comes into the room, he’s supposed to slug me after something I say.
He says to me, by the way, “Please, when I hit you do not go over this 18th century table and break it. It’s very important that we are respectful about this table.”
And I said, Oh, I’m not going anywhere. And he says, what do you mean?
I said, “Oh, Omar. I said, if you hit me and I go flying off that table, where do you and I go for the next four hours?”
He says “What will you do?
I said, “I’ll probably adjust my tie.”
He started to laugh and that’s how it started.
How do you infiltrate a person’s personality who comes in defensive working with Bill Hurt in “Altered States”.
I had some very difficult dialogue because it was very technical. How do you make it real? I started to do this sequence and he says to me, “Is that how you’re going to do it?
And I said, “Why is that how you’re going to do it?”
And from that moment, he goes, “You’re an arrogant son of a…,”
And I said, “So are you.”
From that moment, we clicked. When we joined hands in Mexico, away from Warner Brothers, we had a good bond.
I never stood for his star attitude. You have to call it. So I don’t like it. When someone brings that, I leave that, I go outside.
Joe Winger:
Doris Roberts, after dinner once wrote you a note. I took that idea as an incredibly loving gesture.
if you could talk a little bit about that note, and then any other amazing gifts from you dinner parties?
Thaao Penghlis:
When I approached Doris and she would write the introduction, her comment was, “Oh, darling, why don’t you do that?”
I said, Doris, you’ve been coming here for dinner for years. So why can’t you just get in touch with your heart and write something pleasant?
And that’s what she wrote.
Because every time she came, it’s like my friends who come over always know they’re going to get a good meal. I never go cheap on the thing. I’ve seen people come in the house with daisies in their hand. I said, “Does this house look like it collects daisies?”
Or they’ll bring me Two Buck Chuck.
I said, are you bringing that so I can put it as a wine for the food, because it’s certainly not going on the table and things like that.
Where people are not experiencing you or contributing and also shows you how cheap it is. And even when Doris, who used to get crates of champagne from Dom Perignon for free, because she was connected to somebody who worked there, she would come in.
She would say “Darling, here’s some Dom Perignon, put it in the fridge.”
I said, “Oh, okay. Thank you.” I think, Oh, this is a person who understands quality.
Then five minutes later, she’s sitting at a chair. She says open the champagne for me, will ya?. So I realized it wasn’t for the house. It was for her. So she didn’t bring anything.
Here’s this woman who makes an enormous amount of money. I’ve studied with her for over 20 years with Katsalis, the director, and then she would come in and sit at the table and she would look at the flowers and then she would look at the presentation of everything and then she would smell the food and so through that experience – you don’t always get respect, you have to earn it.
With her, because of my work as an actor, and because of my success as an actor, and also now writing some people will say to you, “Are you writing another book?
But they say it in such a derogatory way.
Whereas Doris said, “I’m so proud of you.“
I went out with Doris, just the two of us went to movies because she always had to have company. She was like Joan Rivers. She had to have every night filled. She couldn’t stand just being on her own. So when she was invited to my home, she always remembered the presentation and the flavors of that evening.
Joe Winger:
Let’s talk a little bit about what was the process of writing the book like this time?
Thaao Penghlis:
Recipes are in my head.
So I had to cook in my head. For six months I started to think, Oh,I never wrote anything down.
I would call friends and say, “What was your favorite meal I cooked?”
Then I would say, Oh, okay, that’s good; and then I would just test my friends and they would tell me what they like the best.
So I got all these recipes that were still in my head. And I somehow remember what I put in it. My sister in law in Australia says to me, the difference between you and I as chefs is that I have to have a cookbook in front of me. You open the fridge and say, what are we going to eat?
I spent six months going through recipes.
Then finally I said, what did my mother cook? The Greek traditional foods or the Greek desserts. And my sisters are very good at cooking desserts.
Then slowly I collected the foods and started to make them.
Joe Winger:
That’s an incredible journey.
We’ve pushed toward the idea of an impolite or a bad dinner guest. How do we find an appropriate dinner gift? And then what would be a definite no?
Thaao Penghlis:
People will ask me, what can we bring?
It’s a silly question because you can’t bring food. So you, what do you bring wine? Or flowers? Or whatever enhances the atmosphere?
But something that’s not here, but sometimes when they keep asking me that, I say, bring cash. And that always throws them because they take it seriously.
So sometimes I won’t answer that question. I said, “Surprise me. But make it expensive.”
So I like to play with them.
I said to a friend of mine once, your hands are always empty. They never spoke to me for three years after that. They turned around and left.
There’d been guests who arrived when you had a seven o’clock dinner and arrived at 9:30. I’ll open the door and say to them, “I’m sorry, we’ve already had dinner. We’ll talk another time.” And then I closed the door because I find it disrespectful.
It tells you who people are and their consciousness. I don’t like unconscious people, but we’re going through a very difficult time in the world.
And it’s all because people are not conscious of others. It’s always about them. And so to me, the wonderful thing about serving food and expecting something in return, something.
Even if it’s – we used to write notes in the old days, a phone call – but texts now have become such a convenience.
Why don’t you just call me and tell me where I spent two days preparing this, that you can’t afford a five minute phone call, but you’ll text me in one sentence and that’s it.
Things like that I don’t approve of.
I think that kind of communication short changes [the memory of the experience]. I want to be at times where you want to cook again. If you’re not gonna share something about yourselves, call me the next day and say, I had such a wonderful evening. Some people think it’s enough when they leave, or they got here,
But they don’t understand how you complete things. Completion is very important. Just as an actor, you have an arc in your character, it’s complete.
The same thing with food.
When I serve food, it’s complete. I have an order: I have hors d’oeuvres. I have a first course. I have the main course. And then I have dessert and maybe some Greek coffee or tea or whatever people need and the wines.
But I just find people are unbelievable. They don’t understand what it takes to put an evening together.
If you don’t know how to treat me, I’m going to show you. So that’s what I said there.
Joe Winger:
Have you ever played with the idea of a cooking show? Is that something you see at all for yourself?
Thaao Penghlis:
It’s a lot of work. All that preparation. I’ve done it as a guest here and there.
Joan Rivers used to join guests and everything, she always made some wonderful jokes.
Dame Edna would make wonderful jokes.
I’m doing a book signing May 22nd at the Grove in Los Angeles at a Barnes and Noble. I’ve got to do a cooking show. I thought what are we going to cook? Something that’s not difficult.
So I’m going to do a vegetarian dish, which is not in the book, but it’s with shiitake mushroom, truffle oils, mint, basil heirloom tomato, raw peas and pine nuts. Then I will mix that in with the pasta and some olive oil and then some truffle oil and with some herbs and that’s about it.
That’s so convenient and it’s such a delicious dish with Parmesan cheese over it.
Joe Winger:
The book is called Seducing Celebrities: One meal at a time
You breezed over Joan Rivers for a moment and I wanted to touch upon it because In that chapter, you help us see her in a different way than what we always think of her as, especially being in the car with her daughter, Melissa as a young girl.
When I think of Joan Rivers, the stereotype, I think of outrageous, and you have one or two moments beyond her, Barbra Streisand, there’s a little bit of outrageousness there, are there any outrageous moments that you didn’t include that you thought about including?
Thaao Penghlis:
I don’t I don’t mind telling stories, or privately telling stories.
There’s got to be a borderline, just like etiquette. If I’m expecting for people to behave a certain way.
One time, there was a famous guest, which I won’t mention, who was having problems with their daughter, and they were sitting around the table. The phone rang in the middle of dinner, and he answered it, he starts screaming on the phone, and telling his daughter off.
I just lost it, I got up and I said, “If you don’t mind, take your bloody phone call outside, we’re not interested in your private business and how rude of you.”
Because I don’t like people bringing phones into the house.
The inner chatter that goes on with people’s minds, where they’re so distracted with life instead of just being there. Being present.
With Telly Savalas as well. There have been times also with people with Days [of Our Lives] and I couldn’t tell those stories because firstly, I have to work with him again. Secondly, I don’t think it’s everybody’s business.
There was a book that Hustler put out all the stories about those magnificent stars of the [1940s] and talked about their sexual proclivities.
Someone said, “Why would you do that?” Why would you betray your friends that way?
You smash the myth. They spent years creating a myth. But when you start getting into the nitty gritty, you make those people ordinary. And show business is not about being ordinary.
So I try to refrain from telling things that go beyond the norm. I want to be able to see these people later in some time, even though they’re gone,
I still believe we’ll see them on the other side that they did more good for me. Otherwise it’s a matter of respect and keeping someone’s dignity there.
Joe Winger:
Your book starts almost like a love note or a Valentine to growing up with your family. Your mother, your father, their first trip to L. A., to your grandfather George’s herrings and olive oil tin.
Thaao Penghlis:
Yeah, that was something to watch growing up.
To see my grandfather bringing his knowledge of food from the islands of Greece.
What I remember the most, even my grandmother, you’ve come down in the mornings and you can smell the cinnamon toast. She would be dipping wicks into wax and creating candles for the church.
Joe Winger:
Seducing celebrities one meal at a time.
Can you give us a tease about what you’re looking forward to in the future?
Thaao Penghlis:
I just finished exploring the Holy Families.
I did a two week trek up and down the Nile to these sacred places. So I’ve written a story because most of the things we see about religion are postcards or lovely paintings. What do we do when we explore it within ourselves and follow those routes? Something else happened.
I’ve written a teleplay. It’s very interesting the way it begins and where it begins and how it follows through into The Great Escape.
Find Thaao Penghlis’ new book on Amazon at Seducing Celebrities: One Meal at a Time
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